Forwards We Could Use
I've been tossing around the idea of writing a post that talks about acquiring specific players and how we could go about getting them, but I always stop myself. Mostly because at some point, whether we get the guy or not, he'll do something dumb and one of you will search our archives, find this post and shove it in my face like I'm a puppy that pissed on your rug. Well, lucky for you, I'm feeling especially brave/bored this morning.
Click to reveal the madness:
I think the Wings need a guy who will score 40 goals a year or more. Consistently. Not 8 goals in a span of 5 games, then no goals in 12. I also think we need a forward who will piss off other teams and get them off their game. No one on Detroit pissed in Nashville's Cheerios and Nashville was able to play the way they wanted to the entire time.
Zach Parise: Jordan has a good post about him just below this one, so I won't go into too much detail here. I will say that I think he could score 40 consistently, because I think his game would change in Detroit. He's Kovalchuk's setup man now, but in Detroit he'd be taking passes from Pav. He'd also be playing for a puck possession team instead of a defensive-minded team, so his Hudler-esque numbers should go up. He plays hard and will get dirty when needed, but he doesn't solve our lack of physical play. Getting him would probably cost about $7.5 to $8 million per year, but we wouldn't have to trade another asset to get him since he's a UFA.
Alex Semin: From a blogger's perspective, I would enjoy getting to use 'Semin' in post titles on a daily basis. It would never get old. Ever. But I said I wanted a consistent 40 goal scorer and he is not. However, if he could be had for Franzen-money, I'd go for it for one year. I would also only want Sem-- I would also only want ALEX if he was our second forward signing. If we were to rely on his streaky goal scoring, we would be in trouble, but if he was skating around on the second line, occasionally chipping in hat tricks, that would be cool. Also, he's right-handed. Admit it, you'd love to see Semin on the Wings next season. (Never gets old.)
Teemu Selanne: Sounds like he's considering retirement or playing one more year for the Ducks only, but who knows? He's supposedly BFF's with Val, so that's good. Again, he would be cool as a second signing.
Everyone has trades! Trades, trades, trades!
Steve Ott or someone like him: "WTF!?!?!?" Ahem... Steve Ott or someone like him: Yes, you read that right. Steve Ott would help this team with its lack of physical play. "But we play a clean game! We don't fall into those after-the-whistle traps that other teams do!" And why not? Honestly, what's the point? Four guys will take turns punching Holmstrom in the back of the head while our guys just sit there watching. Holmstrom just tries to adjust his helmet while shooting back a dirty look and saying "Stop it, for sure!" and the damn ref calls matching minors! Why not punch back? Get our money's worth. Steve Ott commits a lot of penalties, but he also takes a lot of guys with him. He also draws a lot of penalties. Say what you want about integrity, but teams like Nashville and St Louis are still playing hockey. I think Ott could be acquired for Dan Cleary. Their cap hits are almost the same and so are their numbers. Cleary provides them with leadership. Ott provides us with hits and 4 on 4 hockey.
Jerome Iginla: 40-50 goal scoring power forward who has never won a cup? Yes, please. If Calgary trades him, it would be because they have given up building around him just to finish 9th in the west every year, so they would want prospects or someone young to help build for the future. Since he only has a few years left, Detroit can't give up too much, either. Four bottles of Jack Daniels, Kindl, Emmerton and next years 1st. The four bottles of Jack because the Calgary GM would have to be SLAMMED to take that deal. More realistically, Franzen and Kindl for Iginla. Final offer.
Corey Effing Perry: He has proven that he can score a ton of goals and he hits guys. He's also young. He's also a prick. He's the kind of guy we love to hate, but our team would be better off with him. From what it sounds like, the Ducks are broke and are trying to shed salary. Because of this, Perry would have to be had for a promising prospect or some really good draft picks that we don't have. Would you be okay with trading Nyquist for Perry? I think Nyquist could be one of the best players in the NHL, but that's why this trade would work. He could be. I don't know. This is one of those trades that I would deal with if it happened, but it would be hard.
Bobby Ryan: I think Bobby Ryan is awesome and not near the douchebag that Perry is. He's also the type of guy who could really help the team going forward, but since he hasn't scored 50 in his career like Perry has, I think he could be had for less. Meaning, we get our young power forward, we get to keep Nyquist and the Ducks shed salary. Precious, precious salary. Ryan for Kindl and Tatar. Add draft picks as needed.
Alex Ovechkin: Dale Hunter is a dork, but his handling of Ovechkin could be the greatest thing to happen to Detroit in the history of ever. Ovechkin played about 7 minutes less than Jay Beagle in game 2, even though Ovechkin scored the game winning goal in the third period. After scoring that goal, Ovie didn't get another second of ice time. While we cheer for the Devils to lose ASAP so that Parise will be super bummed, we need the Caps to go further than they ever have since drafting Ovie. This would make it harder for them to fire the boob that is Dale Hunter and Ovechkin would probably want to GTFO. It would cost us a lot, but I'd be willing to trade Franzen, Filpulla and Hudler for him. An entire line, yes, but as long as we got the right free agents in July, it could work.
Rick Nash: Nash is everything we want other than being left handed. Whatever, it doesn't matter because we'd never get him. No way he gets traded to a division rival for anything less than half our team. They'd probably want Howard plus the assets I mentioned for Ovie. Forget it.
Jordan Staal: I'd let go of Filpulla and Hudler for him, but Hudler isn't even under contract, so he's not exactly an asset. I mentioned him earlier because a trade for Ovie would probably happen in the fall after the Caps made it clear that they were sticking with Hunter. So to get Staal, it might cost the Wings Franzen and a prospect with a lot of potential. Since Pittsburgh sucks at defense, I'm thinking it would be Smith. Would we be willing to part with our only worthwhile defenseman in the system for Staal?
Evgeni Malkin: Via WiiM, sounds like maybe the Pens would trade Malkin instead of Staal. Go ahead and take a moment to imagine Malkin playing with Datsyuk for 20 minutes a night. Cool, huh? Now stop. We don't have the assets to make that happen.
After free agency and any trades, I think our lines could look like this in October:
Parise-Datsyuk-40+ goal scorer acquired by trading Mule
Semin-Filpulla-Zetterberg
Ott-Helm-Eaves
Miller/Holmstrom-Abdelkader-Bertuzzi
The way I see it, all of those lines are great in their own way. Ott, Helm and Eaves provide boat loads of energy and power plays/4 on 4 play so that we can get additional offense out of our crazy-awesome top two lines. Miller and Abby stay with the team and provide energy and timely goals while Bert dresses for the occasional shootout. Holmstrom might have to be resigned in order to keep TPH around since riding to games with him is part of Nick's routine. Our second line would be the only one that concerns me because all three of those guys tend to vanish from time to time. Switch Semin with Selanne and that's no longer an issue.
Who did I miss? What big-name forward would you want on this team and who would you be willing to trade to get him?
Defensemen coming soon.
Troll me on Twitter. @Twig81
Parise is one of the top twenty players in the game today. Val, although highly underrated around the league, still would not crack the top fifty
I guess whoever did the blog idk but I seen it towards the end of it a few times. No big deal was just letting ya guys know lol and yea their neck n neck to me but I feel like when teams play against either, that their top guys will go against val more then zack making val more dangerous. I feel he handles the puck better too but idk its pretty close I'd say. But your right that is a good thing lol though who knows if he wants to play there. He might wanna play in minnesota where he's from
brian, who spelled filppula's name wrong and where? also, while i utterly disagree with you that val is better than parise in the slightest, you're in luck, because parise is a free agent and would not be acquired in a trade. -Twig
You spelled Filppula wrong, it isn't Fillpula lol and there's no way I'd trade him for Parise. He can play D like Parise maybe even better after this year, can stick handle better. Pass the same and put up as many point. Parise has a better shot that's all and is more of a leader but we have plenty of those. I'd like Parise but not for Filppula
Dustin Penner. UFA 6-4 250 salary 4.95 caphit 4.95. Plus he's a Western Canadian boy; just like Mike. No one's talking 'bout 'em. Except for NHS.
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@beelza 17 points in 65 games is worth about... less than $1m cap hit. He not worth any more than $1.5m.
No I did not say yzerman got the cup because of shanny. He got the cup because the team went in a different direction.
Parise, Semin, Kostitsyn, Parentau, Jones. Five forwards I Guatantee will be pursued through free agency before any trades are made.
in the post-elimination interviews i've heard, it sounds like babcock isn't thrilled with the lineup at all. also, i know it was 16 years ago, but the wings did trade two roster players for shanahan. coffey was our best d-man at the time and primeau was still approaching his prime. if the Wings don't make that trade, yzerman retires without a cup. i think we'll see the wings make another trade like that this year. -Twig
Did you really just say that Brendan Shanahan is the reason Stevie Y has a cup ring?
That's not what im saying. What im saying is that Holland has never thrown away players to get a high priced forward someone else doesn't want. We have always built through the draft and free agency. Also, he's not going to trade away any roster players. Him and Babcock have both said they like the group they have, so they will be more likely to add depth through free agency. I like the idea of Parise alot but we both know Ott is not a wing. We need physicality but it would be more likely to be a Gaustad type player that isn't such a maniac.
Gavin- detroit would come out on top of all those deals, but that's the point. not all trades happen because both teams think it will make them better. some teams can't pay the bills. some teams need to get a guy that doesn't fit the team's mold out of the locker room. if a team is trying to dump salary, which some teams need to do from time to time, how does trading an expensive superstar for an expensive superstar help them? -Twig
You are absolutely out to lunch with those trade proposals. Not a single one of those would ever happen.
For Iginla you've GOT to throw in Jerome K Jerome's collected edition. There is no way around.
Somebody ask Andrew if he'd by a Perry jersey if he came to Detroit
[ducks for cover]
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Trade Nyquist or Smith? Bad. I don't think either top prospect is worth whatever we get in return, even on Ovie's level. Besides, who's to say he wouldn't just be another Mule? On that note, we'd have to eat so much contract to trade Mule that it wouldn't be worth it.
I think your best point is picking up a guy like Ott who'd get us those 4-on-4 matchups. That's a PP for this team (in fact, it might be better than a PP, considering how well those go). Ott-Helm-Eaves would be an awesome line. Other teams would hate it. They may not score top-line goals, but they'd exhaust other teams and make them take boneheaded penalties.
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@laerm i like the second part of your comment. as for the first, i think nyquist and smith will end up being stars in this league, but i do think we would be better off with a top line consisting of datsyuk and ovie than one that consisted of datsyuk and nyquist.
@Twig @laerm Yeah, I shoulda sorta added a qualifier: if our system had other guys in it like Nyquist or Smith, then trade away, Kenny! Alas, as it's pretty thin, let's hold on to what we've got. I'm OK with being bleh* next year as long as we're taking steps to get younger and let our next wave get up to speed.
I'm still lukewarm on Ovie (not that I think we'd ever have a chance at him anyway, unless there's some Hossa-style magic in Holland yet**). I think he'd be too old and I don't know how well he'd mesh into a new system. Babbles would treat him well, and, yeah, he and Pav are tight, but, I dunno... I'd love to have Parise or Semin for long-term deals. I'm actually surprised nobody (Kenny especially) hasn't been able to pry Iginla away yet. That's one of those Sundin-type things where it makes me wonder how much drive Iginla has...
* note: "bleh" for the Wings is a 7-8 seed.
** I still wish we had Hossa.
Dustin Penner would be good to look in to. Travis Moen? Shane Doan? Adam Hall? Paul Gaustad? Doan would more than likely be way overpriced, but assuming he doesn't win the cup this year perhaps he'd be willing to settle for less.
I only know of Hall because he's from Michigan, but he's a real big guy at a low price, and I'm sure he'd be excited to come home and play.
@Tnhgeno Penner? I really can't see what upside he has. He has been terrible for a while on several teams. Wasn't it just a week ago that he made some comment like, "Believe it or not, I used to be a good hockey player."
@ThroatShot @Tnhgeno Well to be fair he was only ever terrible on LA. He was solid playing for Edmonton. Good enough, anyhow, to score a promising prospect, a first rounder and a second rounder. Having said that, he doesn't address any needs, really, unless you count Ken Holland's apparent need to go bargain basement shopping in the hopes of rubbing a reclamation project in everyone else's face.If he's brought in along with someone like Parise, fine, but if Holland can't land Parise and Penner ends up being the consolation prize, that's no good.
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@garth @Reddy Garth I right and for a player that size with the potential he could be a nice pickup along with a scorer but not the primary acquisition. We know Babs likes em big and you don't get much bigger than that. I think surrounded with Detroit's players and given a role on the team he could be a great reclamation add for the right price
@Reddy To play devil's advocate, it doesn't matter what he makes now. He'll be a UFA and everyone in the league knows he's not worth what he's making, so whoever he signs with it's likely that he'll be getting closer to what Sheldon Souray signed for than what Christian Ehrhoff or James Wisniewski signed for.
@Tnhgeno I totally agree with Throatshot, I don't see any real upside to Penner that we don't alreay have. He's not 50 scorer for sure, and he earns too much as it is.
@ThroatShot @Tnhgeno I'm not saying he's worth his salary (find me an offer-sheeted RFA who is), I'm saying he wasn't terrible on Anaheim and wasn't terrible on Edmonton. Obviously he HAS been terrible on LA (though he's had 4 points in his last 2 games, if I'm going to play devil's advocate).
I hope we don't trade Nyquist. We haven't even really seen him yet! No way we're getting Parise. I honestly don't see us getting any big names this summer.
@teddywings why don't you think it's possible for us to get parise? the devils can want him all day long but if they can't afford to pay him without dumping additional assets, why would he chose to stay there?
his two options seem to be getting paid and contending or getting paid and golfing in april.
@Twig I just think he'll go somewhere else for a ton of money or he'll only stay with us short term like Hossa did (and would that be okay?). When was the last big free agent signing we had for a long time? I just can see us loading up on blue collar guys who are under 3mil rather than getting guys who are more. Parise is too blue-chip for the wings, I think and he is going to be so heavily pursued by other teams. From the last few summers, it seems like all the UFAs go somewhere and they are WAYYYYYY overpaid. It just takes one moron with a lot of money to take Parise away from us or Sutter or Weber, etc. It will be some team like the Islanders, Colorado, or Carolina or some other team with a bunch of money. I think we'll get the second tier guys or just wait until next summer for that crop of free agents or it will be someone way off the radar (like Michael Nylander or Sean Avery, not him, but just using him as an example). I mean...we had a chance to get someone last summer and a chance to get someone at he trade deadline and nothing worked. Why would we expect something "big" to happen this summer?
I guess you are right about me being way off in terms of thinking that the team doesn't need a change. It's just that this team shows stretches where they are spectacular, then they go in the crapper.
@teddywings @garth @Twig If we are going to sit on empty space under the cap, I would rather overpay anyone good than do nothing again.
@teddywings @Twig I see what you're getting at, but I'll go back, again, to Hossa. There were 28 other teams interested him and he left the team that made it to the finals to come to Detroit. Of course, Detroit isn't coming off a Cup-winning year, but they've got as good a chance as any team and a better chance than probably most teams to be a contender next year. New Jersey's ownership is in a state of flux right now so it's unlikely he stays there unless they make a serious run in the playoffs. Even if they do, who knows what he'll do. And while guys like Wisniewski would not sign in Detroit because Detroit wouldn't overpay, Parise doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would do that. Also, he's coming off a $6M contract. Theoretically he's financially stable, so it likely won't only be for the money. In fact, it seems like this current contract would be the "for the money" one.
Also, as Twig just noted, there are going to be a lot of teams that won't even consider themselves contenders and won't even give him an offer.Also, it could be wishful thinking, but I read (on KK?) that during the All-Star break Parise was essentially hanging off Pavel Datsyuk talking with him about the Red Wings organization. I hope that's a good sign, but it's not stopping me from rooting against the Devils in the playoffs.
@teddywings @garth i just don't think that the other teams in the league will "do whatever it takes to get him." i bet i could name 20 teams that won't even send him an offer.
@garth @Twig I'm kinda playing devil's advocate (fitting for an ex-NJ player isn't it?). I am just saying, there are 29 other teams in the league that all want him and will do whatever it takes. I would be surprised if he signs with us because I think these kinda guys get paid way too much money and I would hope Holland doesn't overpay for him. I hope he does come to the Wings! But I'm not getting my hopes up....
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@teddywings @Twig Jets? Hurricanes? Sens? Why would any of them be more attractive than the Wings? Edmonton? They're on the upswing, but they still aren't good. I don't see why Parise would consider going to any team that didn't at least contend for a playoff spot this year. And Detroit is potentially attractive because (assuming Lidstrom comes back) they are potentially one or two puzzle pieces away from being a true and realistic contender. AND Parise is absolutely a perfect fit and he knows it.
@Twig Ottawa, St. Louis, the Jets, the Hurricanes... granted some of these teams aren't playoff teams but have a lot of young talent. Even Edmonton if they could swing it.
@teddywings @Twig I think you're right about Detroit not necessarily being as attractive as they once were, but everyone still uses the Wings as a measuring stick and there is still a pretty strong core. And hell, who wouldn't at want to be on a line with Datsyuk or Zetterberg?
@teddywings "When was the last big free agent signing we had for a long time?" Fair enough, but when was the last time Holland felt he NEEDED a big free agent signing?
@Twig You are right about the Rangers. The wing's haven't really cut it the last few years, don't you think another "up and coming" team would be more appealing?
@teddywings rangers won't have the cap space. ottawa could be another option, but what's so great about them compared to detroit?
@Twig I mean he could go to Ottawa? Or even the Rangers, then he wouldn't have to move! Considering where Detroit is at right now, I think there are more attractive places for him to sign....
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@teddywings not all teams will send him offers and of those teams that do, not all will be a fit for him. he wants to get paid AND contend. colorado can offer him money (not really, they may have space, but they are saving it for when entry level deals expire) but they can't offer him a cup run.
detroit is one of the few teams that has the space and the ability to make a run at the cup. that's why they are a front runner for parise.
as for being like hossa, the only reason hossa left was because we picked franzen over him. the day he signed with chicago he said that if not for the cap, he would still be a red wing.
I am still not convinced the team needs to be majorly rehauled. Am I way off on that? :-|
@teddywings mostly. this team has not made it to the conference finals for 3 straight years. i like these guys. i think they're cool and fun to watch in the regular season, but they're just not good enough to win the cup.
