Defensemen We Could Use
Not too long ago we talked about some forwards around the league that were either free agents or in a position to possibly be moved in a trade. Today we'll take a look at defensemen that will be available one way or another and what it would cost to get them.
Jump for more madness:
TPH: If Nick comes back it won't be over money. It will be because he still wants to compete and is confident that Ken Holland will provide him with the teammates he needs to get the job done.
Ryan Suter: Sounds to me like he's about 95% sure he's leaving. It also sounds like he wants to win and get paid. That rules out a lot of teams around the league, though I'm sure all of them will make some sort of attempt to at least call his agent to see what's up. Detroit is one of those teams that can pay Suter the money he'll want, give him the years he wants and contend every year. "LOL! We lost in the first round to HIS team! Why would he come to Detroit!?!?!?" Because our first round exit was shocking. It wasn't supposed to happen. Not like that. Nashville losing in the second round? Predictable. They went for broke at the deadline, got a gift in the form of Radulov and... second round exit. I think he can be brought in for $7.5 per year, but if he asks for $8ish, it needs to happen.
Dennis Wideman: Right-handed offensive defenseman. We had one of those once. You know, back when our power play scored goals instead of giving them up. Good times, good times. He produced 45 points while playing in a defensive system. Not bad.
Hal Effing Gill: Ha, not really.
Matt Carle: Young defenseman with some offensive touch. 6 points in 11 playoff games is great, but keep in mind that 6 of those games came against Fleury who was/is terrible at stopping pucks. If he could be got for Kronwall money, I'd go for it.
Trades!
I'm going to leave this open for you guys. Who do you want and what are you willing to give up to get him? (Emmerton, Mursak and picks will only buy a 5/6 d-man, so don't bother)
Prospects!
Brendan Smith: Smith will make the Wings this year and hopefully gets a tad stronger in his own end.
The way I see it, best case scenario, our blueline looks like this in October:
Lidstrom/Suter
Kronwall/White
Ericsson/Smith
Kindl I guess
Quincy is welcome to come back, but if he expects a raise, no way. I don't even see a spot for him unless one of our guys retires and that's not happening.
As far as guys who are currently under contract, our blueline looks like this:
no one/no one
Kronwall/White
Ericsson/Smith
Kindl I guess
So who would you want, where would you put them and how would you get them on the team in the first place?
Insult me and my beliefs on Twitter: @Twig81
How about Bryan Allen? He's a defensive defenceman, big (6'5), mobile for a guy his size, and would add some nice sandpaper to our back end. He's a UFA, made $2.9M last year and won't be signed before July 1.
Player Bio:
http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/hockeynews/hockey/player.cgi?1783
Allen was also 4th in Blocked Shots last season:
http://espn.go.com/nhl/statistics/player/_/stat/defensive/sort/blockedShots/seasontype/2
I like RedWings3RDP's idea about Matt Greene. If they decide to purse Stuart this summer, Greene may not be a luxury they can't afford anymore. However, with that being said, he's their Assistant Captain and @ $3M, he's good value. Can't see them moving him.
@DetCapC19 Very interesting suggestion. I wonder if we'd be able to lure him away from Carolina, or if they'd throw more money than we could in order to keep him around. On the one hand, they've made it known they're looking to restructure their team. They know they want Stahl and they know they want Skinner, and it sounds like (to me anyway) everyone else is a maybe.
On the other hand, a 6'5 shot blocking mobile defenseman? That could be their Shea Weber they build their defense around.
And don't be too sure about teams unwilling to trade/let go guys with C's and A's on their chest. Remember, Los Angeles got Mike Richards, who was drafted by and wore the C for the Flyers. And one of the guys everyone is talking about as an UFA this year (including Detroit) is Zach Parise, who was drafted by and wears the C for New Jersey.
But I really like the idea of Allen. It's intriguing as all hell, and if we can snag him away for the price he's at now...that could be huge. Besides, he may be willing to run screaming from Carolina for a chance at the playoffs and the cup in Detroit.
@RedWings3RDP I don't think Allen would cost too much. He's a UFA so no assets need to go the other way.
Also, while Rutherford was re-signing Ruutu and Gleason instead of trading them at the deadline, he chose not to do the same with Allen. And while Allen was available at the deadline, nobody acquired him (could mean that CAR wasn't getting enough for him or maybe he's not as good as I'm making him out to be). Either way, I'm not convinced there will be a huge bidding war for his services.
With respect to Richards and Parise - Philly decided that Richards wasn't the guy they wanted to build around anymore. Not getting that sense out of LA. Also, NJ wants to keep Parise. If he leaves it will be his choice, not the Devils. But you're right, having an "A" or a "C" doesn't protect you from anything. I just figure if they think enough of him to trust him with a leadership role on a young team that they aren't likely to move him.
@DetCapC19 Well I did read on that link you provided that he was "injury prone" - he had a broken foot in 2010. It also said that he can take bad penalties at times. And I would really rather not replace Kyle Quincey with another Kyle Quincey.
But I've been advocating recently for the notion of sometimes it's about what the players need more than the team. Maybe this guy needs something different than Carolina to focus him in.Or maybe he'll be Darian Hatcher pt 2.
Well, Commie got hurt in training camp and never recovered. I also don't think he's as good as Allen.
Here's a thought: What about L.A.'s Matt Greene. He's big, strong and very gritty. With the inevitable departure of Brad Stuart, quite possibly to L.A., what if we stole Greene away? He'd be a great 2nd/3rd defensive pairing for us. Plus here's a bonus: He's from Grand Ledge, Michigan (where my dad is from, actually) so we have the whole Michigan native thing going on.
@RedWings3RDP How would we steal him? He's under contract for two more years, so who would you give up to get him?
@garth @RedWings3RDP I'm not sure. He's a got about a $3 cap hit. Los Angeles has Jarrett Stoll and Dustin Penner coming up as UFA this year (couple other guys too) and next year, Jonathon Quick is going to be an UFA with only 1.8mil salary hit.Depending on what kind of money those guys are going to cost them, they may need to let someone go to clear up cap space. If Los Angeles felt they needed "experience" on the line, maybe they let Greene go to sign Stuart. Or maybe Stuart goes back to San Jose. Or maybe Anaheim snags him, and the Red Wings work out a trade for Greene.
Don't know if we could get him, but he'd be an interesting pick up.
@Reddy Someone might take Franzen if they are in desperate need of goal scoring. Maybe Florida could decide they need him. That being said, I don't know who we'd want from Florida.
Like I said, I don't know IF we could get Matt Greene, or what we'd have to sell to get him, but it'd be an interesting choice.
@RedWings3RDP @garth Didn't realise he wasnt an FA. In that case I don't think I would be willing to trade for him. The only trades I would like to see are for big guns but I would be cautious about giving away any assets we have atm. Noones picking up Franzen's contract thats for sure.
@garth Sorry, should say "He has a $3mil cap hit." Not 3 dollars. If we could get him for 3 dollars, that'd be excellent.
@RedWings3RDP Fairly comparable numbers this season, Greene is 15pts in 82 and stuart is 21 in 81, so Stuart's a bit better but then Greene wasn't playing for detroit, plus he's 2 years younger. Nothing against this idea actually.
Wanting Suter must be a given at this point. As anathema as it is to say it, I would be shocked if TPH came back for several reasons. I would like to see Quincey go. Aside from Quincey leaving, I would like us to get Suter as well as *either* Carle or Wideman. I think this plan is doable both in terms of cap (Khan wrote a few days ago that he was assured that the Wings were planning on spending to the cap) and availability. If we don't get Suter and TPH retires, our D is just going to slide a little. Maybe if we get both Wideman and Carle with Smith up, we mitigate that.
@garth In no particular order... #1- His age. #2- He has slowed down a lot in recent years. #3- Homer seems likely to be gone, and everyone assumes they will retire together. #4- The same spiel about Sweden, family, etc. that has been a factor in other years but not won out. #5- The prevalence of idiots killing each other in hockey. No reason to get turned into a vegetable at this point. #6- The fact that the Wings have "reloaded" for a while, and it hasn't panned out. He isn't going to come back to that same team. They would have to be successful at all the dreams we have been talking for us to look like the odds-on-favorite I think we would need to be for him at this point. History has consistently proven that the Wings will win few to none of the offseason dreams we reason out and KH will get some guy(s) we never saw coming. #7- The cumulative effect of all of the above.
@Reddy My point was simply that this isn't just a normal off-season, whether Lidstrom stays or goes. It's not a Pittsburgh/Chicago/Edmonton rebuild, but it's likely to be as close to an actual rebuild as Detroit has had in a long time.
@Reddy @moorecha Getting stopped by the same team in the second round two years in a row and then taking a step backwards this year doesn't point towards "we're doing the right thing", and the fact that Detroit is seriously eyeing THE two biggest names in the potential free agent market has to tell you that they're not happy with what they've got and are looking at at least something of a rebuild. And as I mentioned, if Lidstrom leaves along with Stuart, Smith is brought in and possibly Quincey is moved, you're not simply talking adjustment, that'd be a near-total overhaul of the defense, and while good players adjust there's a difference between plugging in one player who is new to the system while keeping the best defenseman of the modern age (at least), and reshaping the entire blueline around that new player. If Lidstrom leaves and Suter is brought in, it's very likely that the brand new top pairing is Suter and Kronwall, which means you're rebuilding the defense into a new image.
@Reddy Ok, now you're contradicting yourself. If no dreams were realized in the last three years then why doesn't Detroit need a rebuild? Unless the only dream is to continue making the playoffs then Detroit definitely needs some rebuilding. Smith has been in the system for years, but so what Ericsson. It doesn't mean he can simply be plugged into the team on a permanent basis without any concern. And with Suter there's still got to be an adjustment period. He spent years becoming what he is in Nashville and he'll absolutely need to adjust to a a big role in a new system. And it would be even that more difficult if Lidstrom were to retire and Suter would have to adjust to a new system AND be the #1 defenseman? Kronwall and/or White could only provide so much stability if the entire defense corps is in flux. If you bring in Suter, promote Quincey to second pairing (or bring in someone else) AND introduce Smith as a day-to-day player, that's a LOT of instability there. On top of that, White has only so far proven to be as effective as he has been while playing with Lidstrom, so he'd have to make his own adjustments if Nick leaves.
@garth @ThroatShot You did you talked about stuff he'd already done, and the fact of the matter is, there were no dreams being realised in the last 3 years. Smith has been in the system and Suter shouldn't be an issue as he wouldn't be joining mid way, a la Quincey. Detroit doesn't need any rebuild, it would only need a bit of one if he left, hence they can't have one if he stays. I wouldn't underestimate Kronwall or White to provide stability. I'm not saying he wont stay, I'm just saying that there equal chance he wont. I think this year more than ever it could go either way. Personally I hope he stays obviously.
@Reddy @garth @ThroatShot I didn't say past dreams either.
And if Lidstrom were thinking about helping Detroit rebuild he'd probably stay so that there's some real stability at the top of the d-corps while people like Smith or Suter are brought in and given a chance to adjust to the system.
Garth, noone said anything about past dreams, and the fact that he's done everything makes it more likely he'll retire. The past 3 years have been consistently dissappointing in the post season, that is a fact, and this team is clearly missing something so he may very well decide to call it a day. It's clear you want him back, but if wishes were horses...
Unlike last year I think that whether or not he comes back is still up in the air, and I think theres a real chance he'll be back. At the same tim I wouldn't be surprised if he retired, it would give the Wings a bunch more money for FAs and a mini rebuild.
@ThroatShot Chelios played will he was 46 and Lidstrom is playing at a much, much higher level than Chelly. Age is a number and with Lidstrom still playing at or serious Norris consideration level, there's no reason for him to retire. If you think that he's going to retire just because Homer might, you don't understand hockey players. Sweden will always be there and as you referenced his age so will I; he's only 42. There's a lot more life that will happen after he retires, there's no reason to do so just because other people are "killing each other". Oh, and few to none of the off-season dreams? He's won four Stanley Cups, to pretend that equals few to none of his dreams is ridiculous.I personally think that as long as he's "taking his time" with the decision, he'll be back. If there's any doubt in his mind about retiring he'll regret not coming back for one more kick at the can, I think.
@ThroatShot If we don't get Suter and TPH retires, our D is going to slide more than a little.. Lidstrom would be (more likely, will be) a huge loss
Pay suter and hope lids comes back for one more year until smith can develop into a solid top 4 dman.
