Nash, Semin, and Nashsemin
So we lost out on the guy that was supposed to rejuvenate a defensive corps that lost its best player, and one of the best defenseman to ever play the game. Ryan Suter didn't happen. And what is our defense going to do? I have Brendan Smith doing everything next year, so I'm not worried, but what we still haven't fixed is that forward sniper position. And no, I'm not being mean to Mikael Samuelsson (is that how it's spelled? Huh...) by saying we still need a sniper. Either that or find a way to make Franzen play every game like it's a playoff game against the 2008 Colorado Avalanches.
So it appears the two best forward sniper roles at this point are Rick Nash, who is trade-able if you give him either the farm or one of the Filppulas (oh yeah, you forgot we had 2, didn't you?) and Aleksander Semin.
Semin is on his way out of the Capitals, and though that leaves a sour taste in the mouth of many a Washington fan, I think he can be a great pickup for us and bring with him a huge workload in terms of goal production that we so lasciviously desire. But there's always the “what do we give up” question. Well, I think we covered what we may give up with the Nash deal in Chris's post yesterday.
I'd like to now know, in a fashion similar to TPL's “How Much Is Too Much” quest for offering Ryan Suter US minted dollars for playing here, “How Much Is Too Much” for Alex Semin? Keep in mind, the fact that you can't say his name out loud near your grandparents without looking away from them suddenly will NOT impact the terms and agreements of his contract.
For frame of reference, here are his stats:
GP G A Pts +/- PIM
469 197 211 408 65 450
His cap hit in 2011-12, according to CapGeek, was an absurd 6.7 million greenbacks. That's a lot of clams for a guy who has better disappearing acts than most of his neighboring US politicians' campaigning referendums come playoff time. I know his leaving Washington sends the message that he will NOT play for less, but let us consider the cap, or the ceiling, whatever you want to call it, and the fact that we only get so many chances to “upgrade” our weaponry this season, and in this era.
So I ask you again, what will you pay for him?
I'll start the bidding. Parise (in US dollars) – Mikael Samuelsson (in US dollars) = A weirdly tolerable, “not as bad as I thought”, balanced, fair, warm load of money for Semin. And if you suck at math, that's 7.5 – 3 = 4. Is that lowballing? I think his Olympic performance in 2010 will agree with me (and just that easy, I just won back all my Canadian readers! Welcome back, eh!), even though that's one of Semin's more assertive plays and he's not wholly to blame for that penalty, it was a horrible, embarrassing effort on his part throughout. So, given the fact I'm clearly lowballing him, anyone else have any logical bids?
I've just got to say that my favorite part of that video is watching Crosby trying to make a hit at the end, and getting his helmet knocked off. That guys is such a little biotch.
@garth Haha yep, thats my drunk typo and the writer that I am, I refuse to fix it. Drunk typos happen a lot when I post here, always shamelessly proud of them!
Good banter and interesting thoughts from everyone. I really just used this post to ejaculate some Semin jokes for everyone. They'd been pent up for a while, and you don't want to get too backed up on Semin jokes. May make your head explode.
Economies of scale I think he'll laugh at a 1 year $4M deal so I'll say 6.5 and maybe, worst case, match his WSH cap hit but I woudln't pay him 7 mil.
Selanne signed a 1 year deal with the Ducks. Send Flip and whatever else they want for Ryan and keep everyone happy.
Now I am interested in Doan, Nash, and Ryan but Semin is the guy I really want. On a line with Datsyuk on a team that plays an organized style of hockey this guy would without a doubt be our leading goal scorer.
4-5 years 6 -6.3 Mil.
Why the Wing's would be interested is beyond me. I really really do not have any faith in Kenny at this point.
I bet he is just waiting to see what happens with Weber before moving forward. And of course by that time all of the good free agents will be gone.
@magnum9 "Why the Wing's would be interested is beyond me."
My assumption would be that it is because he has no heart and no drive and takes lots and lots of days off.
Also, no offense, but you are stupid if you offer him a long term deal. And I mean anything longer than one year. The guy has no passion. He doesnt care. If you give him a 5 year, guaranteed $30M, he has no reason to start caring because he can just sit back and collect fat, fat checks.
You don't know he has no passion or doesn't care. I mean, fuck Pierre McGuire's opinions for a start.
It entirely depends on team chemistry and how he's coached/managed. If any team can keep him at his potential then it could be detroit. That is as long as we don't offer him a Franzen-style contract. I would be pretty happy for us to sign him for 3-4 years. Keep your insults for someplace else.
@Lauren H Maybe you're unaware, but when you suggest "5-6 for 2-4" that includes you being ok with 6 for 4, right?
And I'm sorry for responding to the COMMENTS YOU POSTED AS THEY WERE POSTED BY YOU. I guess nobody should respond, though if you didn't want discussion then I'm curious why you posted in a public forum.
And fine, I guess I didn't respond to your point about Ovechkin's production, so I will now. If the Caps being more defensive-oriented led to the drop off in production, then what do you expect from a team like the Wings that emphasize defense as much as any other team? Is that the point you were trying to make? That Semin wouldn't be expected to play a better two-way game because the Wings don't care about having all their players play well in both ends of the ice? And that he would be allowed to do nothing but concentrate on scoring goals?
Thanks.
@garth @Lauren H You don't need to pick a fight with everybody that comments here. I was only pointing out what I "heard" about the Pens offer. Obviously it's a rumor at this point. And I also only pointed out that I "think" he hasn't accepted that deal because he is holding out for a higher offer. I suggested 5-6 for 2-4 years. And you seem to have taken that as 6 mil for 4 years. And on top of that, the only part of my comment that you responded to was the part where you could pick a fight. Which seems pretty much in line with all your other comments.
@Lauren H Well isn't that a great sign. He's not happy being offered $22M to not have to worry about his job security and not care about playing well for four years, and you think it's a good idea to give him even more to not give a shit.
@garth @NickKehagias Hasn't Ovechkin's play dropped off the last couple of years as the Caps tried to become more defense oriented?
I have even heard that Nash might have some commitment issues as well (although maybe those are just defensive issues).
I pretty much agree with everyone on here. I'd like to see Semin on the team for 2-4 year contract in the 5-6 mil range. I think I heard the Pens already offered him 5.5 for 4 years and he hasn't accepted it yet because he is holding out for more.
@NickKehagias Who has Rick Nash had centring him? Nobody, and he's consistently put up at least 30 goals a year for 7 of 9 years, and put up 40 twice. Semin's numbers have dropped for two years in a row since he scored 40.
And while Nash has been a consistent 30-goal man (only one year since his rookie season has been a less-than-30 year), Semin's production has gone down for two straight years. He played 73 games the year he scored 40, and this year he play 77 games and scored 21.
And I'm not defending Franzen at all, my point was that we already have a natural goalscorer who has zero passion and regularly takes games off, why on earth would anyone want to add ANOTHER one?
I love watching people defend Alex Semin as if he's some unknown quantity or as if Datsyuk will instantly make him a 40-goal man, because apparently that's what Datsyuk did centring Franzen? OH YEAH, some guys it doesn't matter who's centring them because they don't give a damn.
@garth who has he had centering him? Semin has had to deal with other score first wingers and subpar centers for practically his entire career . What's Franzen's excuse? He's next to the best, playmaking, center in the league. Course, maybe I'm just stupid. 8-|
@Reddy @magnum9 I never ever ever ever ever listen to Pierre McGuire.
I judge him as having no passion from watching him play and from watching his production go down. He gets paid nearly $7M a year and as a natural goal-scorer he puts in 21 goals last year. He takes many, many games off and disappears in the playoffs. He's visibly got less passion than the Mule does and the only time you see any passion in the Mule now is if you watch clips from 2008 and 2009 on youtube.
@magnum9 I'm assuming you meant "Why the Wing's wouldNT be interested is beyond me." If so, you have to think about it from this perspective. The Washington Capitals have a guy named Alexander Ovechkin, who also happens to be a Russian, yet they are pretty much willing to let this guy walk. Doesn't that say something about this guy?? AND, no other team has signed him yet which is also telling. I want him on our team but nothing too long just in case.
@Reddy Depends on what you mean by "worth it." Slava Malamund doesn't think he'll sign for less than 6-6.5. In a market where Zach Parise gets 7.5 for 13 and Matt Carle gets 5.5 for 6? Eesh. There wont be any 2 year, 4 million per for a guy as good as Semin. He'd step in and probably be the #1 scorer on the team, unless you think he'd be behind Franzen... I would expect Semin to pot 30-35 goals next to Dats,especially in his first year on the team.
How accurate do we think the reports are on MLive that claim the Wings are not interested in Semin? I would love to get him, but all I seem to be hearing is that we aren't interested and he is most likely going to sign with the Pens.
On a separate note, how likely is Malkin to re-sign with the Pens once he becomes an UFA? He will always play second fiddle to Crosby. He seemed to get no recognition from the Penguins when he single handedly led them to the playoffs while Crosby was wiping away his tears all year.
@Lauren H My hope is that they are very accurate and my gut tells me they are very accurate. Semin was supposed to be a sure thing to be snapped up as soon as Parise chose his destination and the fact that he hasn't probably means something about how most teams see his character.
@Lauren H It's not just MLive saying that- FSD, Freep, and I have heard Ken say it recently. I think the key factors are that he is afraid of overpaying for anyone (I'm sure Semin is asking a lot), fear of taking a risk and ending up looking stupid, and worrying that he will just have another Franzen on his hands (guy who scores all his goals in a 10-game stretch and goes into cruise control the rest of the season and playoffs). I wish he would sign him on a 1-year deal, but no sources seem to indicate that being likely.
I'd go up to 6m and up to 3 yrs. Maybe some performance incentives to get him to 7 if he hits 40+ goals etc? Can't pay him more than Pav/Z but we do have the money. Let's not waste it.
In terms of a 2+-year deal, because I just don't see him signing a 1-year deal, I have been thinking since before July 1st that we should try to get him for somewhere between 5-5.5 mill., but honestly, I don't think he is going to sign for less than 6 mill. Hopefully Kenny can work some magic though (which is long past due this Summer).
@AndyInBaltimore He may not want to sign a one-year deal, but nobody in their right mind is going to offer him more. He has to prove that he gives a f*ck about playing 82 games of NHL hockey plus the playoffs, and he hasn't done that yet, so to reward him with anything more than one year is ludicrous.
@AndyInBaltimore I think he might be convinced to try a 1-year deal given the right sweet talking. "Face it Aleks, every one doubts your drive right now, and that is bringing down your value. Play with us for one year at $7.5m and get a ring. Prove yourself. Show everyone they are wrong. If you like it here, we'll try to work something out. If not, go wherever and you know you'll get a better deal than what you are being offered by other teams right now."
@ThroatShot If you're trying to convince him that he needs to prove himself it's probably best not to offer him a raise over his worst NHL year in terms of goal-scoring.
And the other thing is that he really doesn't need to prove himself, as long as that rumour about some KHL team offering him $30M over three years.
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Enough low-balling. We have the money. Semin has the talent. I don't expect him to be the team's savior, but if we want him, we need to pay him.
I'd offer Semin $5.5 to 6 million, 2 years.
Not really. Per reports, no one will pay Semin 6.7 to stay in the NHL. This isn't entirely about money, or Semin would go to the KHL and earn 10 million.
Many people are suggesting that Semin is worth 4 or 5 tops. I think anything less than 5.5 is low-balling that will be rejected out of hand. I think 5.5 million/one year with performance bonuses for extra pay and years is appropriate given the market on Semin.
@SleepyDrug YES!!!!! Give him the money he wants, heck give him 3 or 4 years. I think Datsyuk will make Semin the 40 goal guy that Backstrom did. You cant score 40 with Jason Chimera setting you up
@moorecha @Jordan_Reis @SleepyDrug
Here is a thought: 1 year, 5.5 million with 0.5 in performance bonuses, and an automatic 5 year renewal if he hits 40 goals or 80 points.
I'm with @ThroatShot if we get 1 year it doesn't really matter. But if we sign him long-ish term I think around 5 is fair, especially considering how high calibre player's wages are rising.
@Reddy @ThroatShot $5M is fair because high calibre player wages are rising? He made $6.7M last year.
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If we sign him to a 1-year deal, I don't care how much we pay. He is going to be better than Mursak or whatever bum from the "Occupy 4th Line Movement" would get bumped. Let's face it, we aren't going to be a cap team this year, so spend whatever this year to get him. Now, if we talk a longer term deal, I believe $5m to $5.5m in the current economy of Free Agents we have seen recently. From the perspective of a longer term deal and what he would probably get from some idiot like Burke is another story, so I can't see us competing in the $$$ race in a long-term contract with the idiots masquerading as GMs...
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Oh, and while I don't necessarily like the strategy, if we got enough streaky players like Franzen and Semin, we would eventually be guaranteed to have some one posting a hat trick on any given night right? lol
