Wings Should Offer Weber A Contract Like No One Has Ever Seen: $12M+
Updated 4:16PM w/additional comments at bottom.Kenny hasn't impressed this summer yet. Sure he's made a few decent behind the scenes moves, but nothing like the summer of Ken like I had hoped. But he can change it with one, devious, but awesome move.
Make a one year offer to Weber for something ridiculous, a number he can't refuse. Say $11 or 12 million, just for next year. Maybe more.
"What?!?" you might ask? No one is worth that these days. Maybe not even Lidstrom in his prime.
Well, hold up. Here me out. First off, this puts a lot of pressure on Nashville. Can they afford $12 million on one player? I don't know, but I know who can: Mike Illitch. The Wings have the cap space and deep pockets to do this; they need to take advantage of that and put their thumb on teams that don't. Be ruthless Ken; remember, skate to throat.
Sure, Detroit would be out 4 first rounders. True. But they'd have possibly the best defenseman in the game today. That's worth four first rounders in my mind. While it'd only be for one year officially, you'd have to have talks with Weber confirming he'd be willing to sign long-term at market value before hitting UFA status. He's be stupid to leave this franchise and I think he knows it.
Hit the jump for more reasons why this would work:
More-so, Detroit will be left with around $6 million to sign a guy like Doan as well. Can't argue with that. And, even if Nashville can match, think of it this way: this sets Weber up for UFA next season and the Wings are no worse off compared to where they started.
A move like this would blow up the hockey world and put Detroit in the driver's seat for this season and ones to come. We'd go from having a huge question-mark on the blueline to possibily the best in the league. At least it might be the meanest.
It's crazy, but I think this makes a ton of sense. You already went outside your comfort zone once Kenny. Do it again.
Update: People are worried about the 1st rounder thing. I would be too. But take a look at our past four picks:
2005: Kindl
2007: Smith
2008: McCollum
2010: Sheahan
Together, there might be two long-term NHL'ers there.There's one potential star in Smith, but he probably won't be on the Weber level. I'd rather have one superstar than those four, even with Smith being part of it.
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What I have taken from the entirety of this conversation: 1) We aren't going to win without focusing our spending on getting a true #1 defenseman. 2) We aren't going to win without focusing on getting more forward scoring punch. 3) There is no way left to significantly improve both offensively and defensively. 4) First Round draft picks are useless to the Wings except as trade fodder. 5) The Red Wings have no hope this coming year. 6) The Red Wings are going to win the Cup again this coming year. LGRW! 7) You aren't a real Red Wings fan if you don't think Ken Holland walks on water. 8) Everyone is worried and desperate for a splash from Ken Holland in the trade and/or free agent markets.
Thankfully none of us is the GM of the Red Wings. Let's call this one a toss up and good job to Chris on keeping everyone going in this disturbing off-season with a provocative entry!
@ThroatShot Sure am glad that this is at the top of the comments so I don't have to go through and read all of the opinions of the other GM's here
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I would like to just add that although we may have differing views and opinions which obviously leads to discussion, there is no need for getting aggressive and angry in the comments. If you disagree just say so, there's no need to be condescending, nasty, insulting, arrogant or pissed off as we can all get, including myself (especially considering the dissappointment of this offseason so far).
What we all think he should do and what Kenny actually does will not match up anyway. Far as I know he doesn't make major decisions based on NOHS, as good as it is ;)
To all the people who disagree with this article:
Give your heads a shake. If we couldn't win the Cup WITH Lidstrom this year, we sure ain't doing it next year without him, and I don't care if we get Alex Semin or Shane Doan. Last time I checked, neither of them can anchor a blueline. We need a replacement for Nick, and we won't find one in any of our 1st round picks in the next four years.
Go for it Kenny.
@gfa5eat1 OK, so if they blow all their money on replacing one of the defenement they lost they still will not have addressed the other defenseman they lost, so they won't be better than last year, in which they lost in the first round.
@garth Fair enough, but if we don't replace this defenseman we have even less of a chance to get past the first round. Adding more scoring won't matter if we let in more goals. you think the number of goals Semin or Doan is going to score will be equal to the number that Nick kept out of the net while he was on the ice?
Doubtful.
@garth Illustrating my point, you're taking it a bit seriously. Man you get so angry so quick dude. Just chill out.
@Reddy "It's an idea on a blog, it's not on paper at a GM meeting right now."
Well gee, I'm sorry. I thought that, being an idea on the blog, the point was to spark conversation. I apologize, next time I will ignore the fucking fact that there is a "comment" box at the bottom and just talk to myself about the blog rather than providing feedback in the forum that has been provided by the blog.
I wonder why they bother to post if nobody should be talking about it, unless it is to agree.
...because our first rounders have been great so far. Acquiring Weber would be a lot more influential than you think. I don't think the problem last year was with defence, it was extremely obvious that they were failing miserably to score (albeit against a good but overrated goalie). We need to get it done up front, put body to net, crash, grind and fight for the puck. None of which happened because our forward efforts were inadequate. I'm not saying weber/1yr/12mil would fix all the problems, especially not up front, but it definitely wouldn't hurt to have him quarterback the team, especially with his offence. It would also take Nashville out of contention in the central.
Besides, it's not going to happen. Criticising this is like criticising Back to the Future for not being realistic. It's an idea on a blog, it's not on paper at a GM meeting right now. Keep you hair on.
@gfa5eat1 Well yeah, because that's what I said, right? That we don't need any more defenseman and all we need is scoring?
Why are you arguing against something I didn't say?
The answer, IMO, is not blowing $12M on one guy for one year, as well as giving up four first rounders.
@gfa5eat1 Last time I checked you can't predict hockey. The f*cking Kings won this year for god's sake!
@Reddy @gfa5eat1 @garth Really just wanting to take away from the whole 8th seed thing... They don't lose their last 2 regular season games to the sharts they would've come in sitting 3rd.... Just sayin' is all...
I know the facts, and there was no blabbing (blabbing would be the revealing of secrets or gossip).
The Wings got a record setting streak, scored consistently more and added a supposedly good defencemen near the end. Seeding higher than LA they had a greater playoff home ice advantage. They were booted pretty convincingly in the first round, only for the team that beat them to be owned in the 2nd. The Canucks who seeded 1st were almost swept by the 8th seed, who on paper, had not improved all that significantly.
My point is that you can't predict hockey by whats on paper, you just can't. If you could, we'd all be making lots of money placing bets
Garth man, there is really no need to be so aggressive. This isn't youtube and we're supposed to be a fan community.
@garth @Reddy thank you Garth, it's good to see someone actually looks up the facts before blabbing out of their mouth.
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@gfa5eat1 Plenty of offence even though they were 2nd lowest in the league in goals per game? We have an all-star goalie in case you forgot, we were 7th in goals per game (not 29th) and one franchise defenceman doesn't make a good team (just ask Nashville). So I'm afraid you're talking out your ass.
"More-so, Detroit will be left with around $6 million to sign a guy like Doan as well. Can't argue with that."
I can argue with that very much. Signing Weber to a $12M cap hit would actually leave use with $4.8M left and only six defensemen, including Jacub Kindl as your everyday 6th defenseman.
Moreover, you still have not addressed the loss of Brad Stuart or the pressing need for a top-six scoring winger.
So you have dealt with one of our needs by spending twice as much as the #1 defenseman you lost, but you still need another top four defenseman and a top-six winger and not enough money to get either.
Oh, and everyone in with Red Wings "blogosphere" needs to stop kidding themselves. Ken Holland is re-signing Kyle Quincey. He just is.
So there you go, we have Shea Weber, but we have fewer top-six forwards than we had last year, and we did not have enough last year.
Yay?
@garth Fair enough. 4.8 isn't 6 million, I hadn't looked it up, going on a number I thought I had in my head.
@garth Yet right now Garth, we are looking at having a for sure hole in the #1 spot and a decent chance we won't be signing anyone worthy of being called a solid talent. I'm thinking at ways to fix that and not just rely on the fact that Weber might pick Detroit next year.
You say this wouldn't address our needs. Our biggest need is at defense. Right now, there's not much else out there. I'd rather have Weber than Quincey+Semin or Doan if it comes down it. A gritty, top scoring forward would great. But our biggest need is defense and this could take care of it long term and not be a long term hit. Yes risky. But high reward.
Think outside the box here. Maybe 12 is too much. I haven't sat down and thought about everything. That's not my job. But I think something like this would really shake things up and is needed. The passive view isn't working; aggressiveness is needed. There's not much left and once again, that cap space is going to sit there, not being used. This would make the team better without sacrificing resources.
I just ask, if you complain about every fucking idea, which you do, what do you propose?
@moorecha It astounds me how quickly people are to completely right off Brad Stuart now that he is gone. A year ago at this time every Red Wings fan would agree that he could be a top-pairing defenseman on 80% of the teams in the league, then he has a bad quarter of the season and everyone forgets how important he was to a championship team and a team that came within one game of being back-to-back champs, or how important he was for the better part of four years. Now apparently he was no more than just a journeyman cog in the machine to some...
@moorecha I guess not. I guess I put Stuart more than slightly better than someone who is completely unproven at the NHL level, nevermind that Stuart is a excellent defensive defenseman who can throw a huge hit, neither of which are things that Smith brings.
But hey, I guess I value defense a little more than you. Difference of opinion.
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@garth Nope. I apparently do not put the value of Stuart as high as you do. I thought Weber was slightly better than Nick last year and Smith would be slighter worse than Stuart (in some areas.) It's called a different opinion. It's not as shocking as you put it.
@garth I think Lid at 41, Stuart, Kronwall, and white is at least equal if not slightly below Weber Kronwall White and Smith. Fill it out with Big Rig/Kindl/Quincey and you're set.
@moorecha Fair enough, but to me if Detroit wasn't a contender with a top four defense of Lidstrom, Stuart, Kronwall & White then they aren't going to be a contender with Kronwall, Weber, White and anyone else they have on the roster as #4.
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@garth I think I agree with EVERYTHING said, except for the fact that I do believe Detroit, with Weber, is a contender. I don't believe they are with what's on the market today.
@moorecha What I propose is that Ken Holland get creative. Remind everyone why he's the best around.
And for fuck's sake, stop being so motherfucking precious about your motherfucking homegrowns, Mr Holland. REALIZE that Filppula is much more valuable as trade bait than he is as a third line centre or second line winger who disappears in the playoffs. He is Detroit's Jordan Staal. He'll never get the opportunity to be a top-two centreman until he is well into his mid-30s, so use him to get something back.
He's also got picks and an overflow of roleplayers. Be creative. Package some young guys and picks for Jay Bouwmeester (I like Keith Yandle, but what I've read is that Phoenix isn't shopping him, they're "listening", and I don't think there's anything that Detroit can or will offer that will knock their socks off) and offer Anaheim Filppula and a pick or something for Bobby Ryan (supposedly what they want is a #2 centre!). Then continue with the signing of Quincey (it's going to happen...those who are against it will have to deal with it), and maybe try to squeeze in Semin or Doan.
And to be clear, I've actually been suggesting on every second thread on Kukla's Korner that someone should offer Weber a one-year deal for league max just to handcuff the Predators, I just don't want it to be Detroit because doing that isn't worth missing the playoffs because of an incomplete defense and having two forwards on the roster who know how to score. For me, it would be a genius move for someone like Edmonton because even if it's only for one year (and it probably is because Hall, Jones & Eberle will all need to be re-signed), you have an excellent veteran defenseman to lead your team and playing with Weber could be great for Justin Schultz.
But that's neither here nor there.
This team, as it is, will not suddenly become a contender with the addition of Shea Weber, so why give up four first rounders for potentially only one year?
"First off, this puts a lot of pressure on Nashville."
Yeah, and if they match, which they absolutely will, then we have no chance at getting Weber for a more reasonable price next summer.
And Kenny's not going to impress me if he spends like a retard.
why not just go all out and offer 100 or 110 for 13yrs? You could front load it so he gets 11 or 12 the first couple yrs. Not sure how the RFA thing works, but would nashville have to match the offer as far as length of deal to keep him?
@keithdman1 If Weber really wants to leave Nashville he won't sign a long term offer sheet and risk Nashville matching it. And I believe Nadhville would match that.
@DetCapC19 @keithdman1 Yes, that is why all this talk is limited to 1-year. Weber clearly doesn't want to be saddled in Nashville long-term and if they matched it, it would be as if he had signed with them.
You know who else tried to do whatever it took to win? Nixon. F---king Nixon. Red Wings fans, and this blog in particular, have always taken pride in the class of our organization, and it dismays me to see the true colors of some Wings fans coming out this off-season. Be it the hissy fit that so many threw when Parise and Suter didn't sign, the senseless trashing of a great hockey market like Minnesota (again, on this blog) or the short-sighted questioning of Ken Holland and Mike Babcock: it all points to a devaluing of the characteristics of the Winged-Wheel we're all supposed to cherish.
Doing whatever it takes to win means putting together a team of individuals that have chemistry, skill, dedication, loyalty, and great work ethic. It DOES NOT mean rampantly signing the latest and greatest overpaid and over-hyped free agent available, or using thug management tactics to put ourselves in better position. Anything it takes huh? Perhaps Kenny should get back on Redbird 1, fly to Minnesota, and poison Zach and Ryan's bran flakes, because IF WE CAN'T HAVE THEM, THEN NO ONE CAN!!
The next person I see writing trashy, brainless, bandwagoneer comments like many I've seen this summer can have a Blackhakw's jersey on me, provided you turn in your Winged Wheel first.
@xDaNGLeSx13x @austikyl @moorecha Sorry, let me re-phrase. They DID eat generic bran-flakes until they signed those hefty contracts. Now they can afford the name brand sh-t.
@austikyl This last exchange has reminded me of my favorite Venn Diagram.... TIGER STYLE!!... [IMG]http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s308/dieternaujok666/cb08a6be.jpg[/IMG]
