From Good to Insanely Amazing in one Swoop
This isn't a freak out post because the Wings lost horribly to the Islanders last night, I am after all a Red Wing fan and know that a few bad games here and there don't call for the team being blown up. I do however think that a change needs to be made to the current roster.
The Wings are good. Really good, but they are still lacking that one piece that will bring greatness.
Click the jump to see what I'm talking about
Franzen - Datsyuk - Bertuzzi
Filppula - Zetterberg - Hudler
Cleary - Helm - Miller
Abdelkader - Emmerton – Holmstrom
Lidstrom – White
Kronwall – Stuart
Kindl – Ericsson
Jimmy Howard
Ty Conklin
Commodore, Eaves, Mursak, Conner, Nyquist, Smith, Tatar, Andersson, Sheahan, Jarnkrok, Pulkkinen, Jurco, Lashoff, Ferraro
This is the most common lineup we have seen this season, and a list of scratches, injured players, players that have seen NHL time this season and prospects that teams would want.
As Much as it pains me to say this because I love Bert, he doesn't belong in the top-six. Yes giving Datsyuk two big bodied forwards to play with gives him more space to perform his magic, and Bertuzzi has been commendable, but we need our top two lines to be able to put up the number from right to left on a consistent basis.
Imagine if Datsyuk had another shooter on his line to go along with Franzen. The dangle-dangle-pass-score opportunities would double, and along with line 1B, which in my opinion is already perfect would give the Wings an unstoppable top-six that would make all other teams poo in their panties.
Who is this mystery winger that the Wings should target? Well, that's the discussion that I would like to start here.
Here are the options.
Zach Parise, Bobby Ryan, Rick Nash, Jarome Iginla, Alexander Semin, Ales Hemsky and Tuomo Ruutu
For me I would target either Ryan, or Nash if I was looking to get long term return. Parise would be an amazing addition, but you risk losing him at the end of the season, and Hemsky probably takes the least to acuire, but you would be banking on his potential to turn into a scoring threat on a skilled team.
Here's what I would do if I could be Kenny for a day. (I'm probably low balling this)
Trade Columbus Cory Emmerton, Jakub Kindl, Tomas Tatar and 2 first round picks for Rick Nash.
This gives the Jackets and Jeff Carter to build around, a young, decently sized, well trained puck moving defenseman in Kindl, a potential (or in Columbus' case definite) top-six forward in Tatar. A glue guy with Emmerton and 2 first rounders.
Detroit's lineup then becomes
Franzen - Datsyuk - Nash
Filppula - Zetterberg - Hudler
Musak - Helm - Bertuzzi
Cleary - Abdelkader – Holmstrom
Lidstrom – White
Kronwall – Stuart
Commodore – Ericsson
Jimmy Howard
Eaves, Miller or Nyquist can rotate into the bottom nine where needed, Commodore slides into the 6th d-man spot where he seems to make Ericsson a better player while adding grit and sandpaper to the lineup to go along with Bert, and Smith is brought up as the 7th defenseman.
Nash provides a young big-bodied sniper to the top line that can fill the void left by Bertuzzi in triplicate. He would also give us that superstar to build around through 2018 at a pretty reasonable cap hit (7.8M) for his caliber of a player.
A line with Franzen and Nash centered by Datsyuk says get the F out of our way and let us drink champagne from that cup bitches.
According to CapGeek the Red Wings could absorb a little over 12 million in salary if they made a trade today and almost 27 million if they wait until the deadline, so any of these players, even two of them could be attainable at the right price.
Do you think I am out of my mind? What's your scenario? Be as realistic as you can.
I would like to get Semin, two russian in 1 line would be nice. Also It would be cheaper than Nash deal.
Not convinced Nash would be willing, he has expressed his wishes to stay in the dumpster. However Anaheim do not deserve Ryan. Not a big fan of Iginla in general, never liked the guy or been all that convinced by him. Also I reckon he's too old, it would be another Modano situation (he was good but only 1 year). So, Nash would be goo dbut I don't see it happening, but I don't believe for a second Ryan would turn us down.
Idk if I'd trade kindl, he is good but let's say we lose nick and stewy this year cuz of his family being in san jose, we'd need him. Unless sutter or weber smarten up lol. But I'd deff trade emmerton and tatar and a 1st rounder and 2nd rounder for semin. Then conks and a 3rd rounder for nabakov lol
Idk. Nash mule n pav would be incredible. But I coulda swore when I was reading this interview with nash, he said hed only leave columbus if they asked him too cuz he loves in there. N that he can't waive his no trade clause till the 2014 season. So idk bout that one. Parise got slapped with the C there so he might stay esp if they make playoffs. Idk bout ryan depends on what moves Anaheim makes. I'd say I'd go for Semin, he's young, russian. Can put up 40 goals without pav, with pav even more. Good skill n prolly lookin for a new home n might settle for less then ryan would n the caps are desperate
While he is not a long-term solution, I think the most attainable of those you mentioned in Iginla. They have hated him for years now, and another tanked season would have to make him at least available for talks. If playing with Pav and Mule got him reinvigorated, he is the exact recipe for success. RHS sniper. Boom. Now this may say crazy, but given the level of previous hate and another season of unmet expectations, I think we could nab him closer to Calgary's failure (trade deadline) for Errorson, Emmerton, and a 3-4th rounder.
I think Kenny will surprise us all and bring in a player none of us were even thinking about. If you go off the players I listed I would Say Hemsky or Ruutu are the most logical. Semin might be had for little to nothing though.
That's why Kenny is the GM and we are all sitting on the couch, he will pull something off and I'm sure it will be the right move
Hell no. I don't want Rick Nash.
Ok ok, lemme explain a little better. Firstly, I really don't think CLB would give him up for that, but I noticed in the article that he mentioned that he was lowballing it. I believe he is. CLB would want something along the lines of Smith, Nyquist, Jurco and a first, at least I believe, but they also might want an nhl ready player instead of our three best prospects, so maybe like flippula, smith, and nyquist and some picks.
Secondly, Nash's contract is just debilitating. 7.8 million a year until 2018 is more than anyone else on our team. To justify it, he'd have to be better than everyone else on our team, in my opinion. It's also the 5th biggest contract in the league. Let's look at 1-5 shall we? Ovechkin is having a terrible season for him. Crosby isn't even playing and may never again, Malkin is injured every 4th or 5th game but is really the MVP of this season so far, but was underperforming the last couple years. Eric Staal is terrible right now and completely unmotivated, and singlehandedly crippling Carolina from making moves. It would also tie our hands in FA. If they resign stuart for a modest increase, resign Lidstrom (if they do) then they'd just about break even after holmstrom bert and hudler were off the books. Even if they didn't resign Lidstrom they wouldn't have the money for a Ryan Suter type defenseman. This is of course as well assuming the salary cap doesn't decrease.
Thirdly, Nash has only scored 40 goals or more twice. He's not a point per game player either.
Lastly, I believe Columbus would rather trade him to the KHL for a box of vodka before they would see their captain and best player traded to the team they hate more than life living in Columbus itself.
Other Free Agents:
Ryan - Yes please. Bobby Ryan is a great player, signed for 4 years to 5.1 mil contract a year. He scores 35 goals a season, he's a big forward (6'2", 209, pretty much would be the biggest on our team not named franzen who is about equal, since our team is full of pipsqueaks, specifically 3rd shortest team in avg height in the NHL) He plays almost every game, and gets 70 points a season. Who wouldn't want Bobby Ryan? I don't know what it would take to get him though, but i'd give any reasonable amount of picks, any player not named lidstrom datsyuk zetterberg howard kronwall stuart and franzen, and any prospect not named smith/nyquist/jarnkrok/pulkkinen/jurco/mrazek/ouellet.
Parise - Yes, and I'd give about a 50/50 that they could resign him, depending if he wants to win or go get $$$. I wouldn't offer much more than picks and our accessory players for him. (Emmerton, Mursak, Conner, Brunnstrom, Eaves, Miller, Andersson, maybe kindl.) I don't think NJ would do this deal, because other teams would pay way more. Parise will likely get more money than he is worth in free agency.
Iginla - Yes, and he's quietly one of the best hockey players of our generation. Remember that OT goal Crosby scored for Canada? Who do you think set up that play... Yeah, his contract is also kinda tough (7m) but at least it ends in 2013. More than the other candidates, who can claim to have scored more than 50 goals a season twice? Let's not forget he's the only reason Calgary is on the cusp of a playoff berth every season; quick, who can name his linemates? Is one of them the labatte blue ice girl cardboard cut out and the other Paul Bissonnette's famous bum named Spoons? Oh wait, those would be upgrades.
Semin - Yes. I wouldn't pay much other than picks and the accessory players again for him though as a rental. It would be like Hossa and Datsyuk all over again.
Hemsky - Yes, I'd take him if cheap. I think he'll end up on Florida though.
Final Words: I think all of these are a pipedream. The Red Wings don't normally do blockbuster trades or free agents. Also, keep in mind that the Salary cap could very well go down this year, but I do agree the Wings do have money to spend if they want to.
All of this seems to leave us back at NMOH Drew's Caution about making any moves. Leave well enough alone or go for a bargain basement type find like Hemsky. I think he is the diamond in the rough in this discussion. We seem to have have a knack for polishing those players into cup waving contributors to our cause and success.
Picks and/or Tatar would be the limit, I agree. I trust Holland to do the right thing. Maybe we end up adding a skilled RT shooting wing. All of the other players in the FA mix steal our focus from positioning the team for handling that dreaded day that no one wants to think or talk about.
Kindl is major trade bait for us since most teams are drooling to get a young puck mover, I have reservation about trading him though because on the blue line all we have is Smith thats even close. Kindl could be a major part of our team in the next few years and we have invested so much in him.
I would love to get Hemsky for picks, and it seems that Oil fans aren't valuing him as anything more than a few picks either. the only prospect with value that I would let go is Tatar. Jarnkrok, Pulkkinen, Nyquist and Jurco should be untouchable for the sake of our future. Hemsky is only a rental at this point, but a very nice addition to the Wings who would be able to utilize him in a way the Oilers arent capable of doing@brendon.rell @WingNut83 @Malpraktis
@WingNut83@Malpraktis The only thing to watch out for with Hemsky (other than periodic indifference, which is almost always cured when coming under the tent of red and white) is how injury-prone he is. Some players just seem to have bad luck, and his shoulders are a big concern. Still, if Kenny and the DRW docs feel it's safe to take the gamble, this could be a steal. He's only 28 after all. I think we can say with confidence the Oils would want someone/thing on the younger side to fit the rebuild they have going on over there. The price for Penner was a top(-sh) prospect, a first rounder and a conditional second. I'd do Tatar (who seems to be the new favourite trade bait...I suppose drafting Jurco gives us a Slovak, plus some size) and a 1st. Actually a Kindl+2nd would be fair I'd say, even though I don't want to see Kindl go. Again, teams won't take our garbage for their players.
@Malpraktis I dont think the Wings think short term. They like to turn over aging players and tweak things to get a consistent level of play. I think The best value would be in Hemsky. Oilers management and fans have tipped their hat in favor of moving on, if theres interest from other teams, thus reducing his value. theyve given up on him, thats the message. I dont think he wants that burden anymore. I think early round picks would be be in the Oilers interest as well as just getting him off the books. Draft picks they could use to sweeten the pot in trades for other teams seasoned players to add leadership to the roster.
@WingNut83 True enough. It really depends on how the Wings organization classifies this season. Is it a Win now or is it an ongoing process? Do we try to get that difference maker for Lidstrom's last chance at another cup or continue the status quo as being a very good team that may not need the help?
Sometimes I think though while it's fun to speculate about trading for the best players in the league, one has to remember that on the other side of the coin their GMs want to keep their jobs and get the most return; often times losing their jobs in the process by trading away the fan favorite or conceding a season.
I would definitely do the Nash deal, but the chances of Nash being moved at all are slim to none I would say while Howson is still running the show. Of course, that could change before the deadline. I think Bobby Ryan would make the most sense, given that his GM has basically made him available multiple times in the media recently, not to mention his youth and unquestioned natural scoring gifts. The only challenge is the Ducks want roster players to reset for next years, not draft picks for down the road. And I would hate to lose Flip - I've personally always been a big fan of his play even with his previous lower-than-expected numbers. What about something like Hudler, Abby, Tatar and Kindl?
@brendon.rell I think Abby and Hudler are keepers. Abby is a character player that seems to have jump when the big boys fall asleep at the wheel sometimes. I think Hudler is gonna produce more consistently with the line hes on now.
@WingNut83@Jordan_Reis I agree with you both, but I think any deal to get Ryan would have to be lateral given the need to give up roster players. Plus the Wings' draft picks are never high anyways and every team knows that. I would give up Happy in a heartbeat - he's only just coming into form now - if it meant getting Ryan. And Abby is a heart-and-soul guy but ultimately expendable - to me Helmer's worth more for sure.
Kenny would need to include quality in the package to get quality.
@Jordan_Reis@brendon.rell@WingNut83 Teams like Toronto, Chicago, and NYR really ruin things for good GMs. Every team (or UFA) can just wait for the inevitable ridiculous offer from one or more of them. Then those teams can cop out and dump them into the minors if it doesn't work out. Stupid system that brings parity to the league like nuking the Capitol would bring parity to our political system...
@WingNut83@Jordan_Reis Just to clarify, I was saying I would move Abby before Helm. Really, I would never move Helm. Future Captain after Z!
I agree, the Ducks would probably want the world for Ryan, and teams like Toronto or the Rangers would probably pay it. That's why I think Ryan is the least likely.
Nash may be more attainable than people think @brendon.rell @WingNut83
@Jordan_Reis@brendon.rell I dont see Draper Jr. going anywhere anytime soon. We have a few players that provide much more than a stat sheet could explain. He fits perfectly somewhere in the ebb and flow of the team.
Side note: Bleacher Report had a 8 players/prospects the wings might trade list today. It was so laughable that they actually had Helm on it. It read as if the wings were sellers, and really dumb ones to boot @brendon.rell @WingNut83
@brendon.rell@Jordan_Reis Thats why Im a fan of the ability DETROIT has of rehabing players for the role of team player. We have the leadership and no need for egos or big names. We want humble work. If you whine, you ride the pine or put on a different sweater until you forget your name.
Hudler is a major cog in our top-six like it or not, adding him to a deal makes any move a lot more lateral. Who replaces him? @brendon.rell
Im inclined to go with Drew on this, lets not rock the boat. Nash would be great if we didnt have to give up too much. UFAs are a waste long term. Hemsky may appear to blow, but I think its his expected role on the team that undermines his play and his health. Hes being asked to do too much in a place where the expectations were that one can carry the kids to the promised land. He seems to always step up his game when he plays the REDWINGS!!! almost like he's applying for a job. I think he would find a new work ethic and fix those issues in DETROIT!!! He would cost us the least long term, I think. We rehab players better than anyone.
I would caution against giving up ANYTHING and ANYONE for someone who is going to be a UFA in the off-season. We're a long-term oriented team and I would rather NOT win the Cup this year if it means we'll contend for the next ten rather than vice-versa.
@NOHS Drew Amen. If we trade Abby, Helm, or Filp, I'll lose my mind. I'd rather have the three of them than any UFA out there right now.
I'm in this camp, that's why I would go with Nash or Ryan since they both are locked up long term at decent prices.
Parise would be ideal, but would have to come with an extension in tow@NOHS Drew
Getting Nash would be sick. You think CBJ would deal him within the division though?
-Parise's money and I think we can get him as a UFA this summer.
-I like the idea of Bobby Ryan too. I heard the Ducks want a roster player for him though. Selanne has a boner for Filppula. Would you make that trade straight up?
-Iginla would be nice too and he's signed for next year as well. Right Handed Shot and he's played under Babs before (Olympics). I definitely think he's available.
-I think Semin can be had dirt cheap. Also a RHS and I bet Pav can get him going. He'd also help our PP. UFA at year's end so very little risk. So we could still go after Parise in the summer.
-Hemsky blows. I heard Edmonton wants to get rid of him because his effort is a bad example for their young guys. He's also a bandaid.
-Ruutu - YES. I think he comes cheap. He plays hard. Very gritty. Can play a skilled game or dump and chase. Strong on the puck. Good for 25 goals. UFA this summer so again, very little risk.
i totally agree that the only way this team can win the cup is if we add another pure scorer to the lineup. i think kenny knows it too. with that said, i would love to see nash, parise or ryan. the only thing is, we're assuming those clubs are even willing to trade those specific guys and they may ask for too much if they are. if we could get away with the guys you listed and the two picks i would do it in a heart beat.
