The response got to be so lengthy that I figured it might be best to put in a full post so we can have a nice little thought-provoking discussion on possible line combinations and keep the Nyquist post centered on Nyquist. So here we go...
Bertuzzi - 6th in Points last season
Franzen - 4th in Points last season
Datsyuk - 2nd in Points last season
Hudler - 5th in Points last season
Filppula - 3rd in Points last season
Zetterberg - 1st in Points last season
...seems to me that Bert was pretty much in line with the trend.
Make the jump for more.
I've always said that the best line combos are a grinder, a passer, and a shooter. Bertuzzi isn't the hard-nosed bulldozer that he once was...but he still goes into the corners to get pucks. Datsyuk will make the first (or second...or third) guy miss and dish Franzen who loves to shoot. Nyquist could fit in as the shooter on either of the first two lines.
OR...we could move Filppula back to 3rd Center and have Brunner play wing with Zetterberg and Nyquist (or Franzen if Goose went to the top line). Either way - I think you almost have to put Bert on a line with Datsyuk - it''s been that way for an entire season + and I would NOT call it a failure up to this point.
Abdelkader-Helm-Miller (or Emmerton or Eaves or whoever)
No matter what way you look at it - we're going to have 20+ goal scorers all the way through the third line and possibly spilling into the 4th line. In my opinion, Drew Miller has done NOTHING but prove he deserves a spot on this roster. He has scored no less than 10 goals per season (14 last year). Eaves when healthy can be inserted anywhere in this lineup...and we're all wishing him a full recovery sometime soon.
Filppula is an interesting "wild card" if you will. Because apparently Brunner is supposed to be in the top six which means someone has to be bumped. Mikael Samuelsson has to be a third liner. So who drops down? Do you put Flip back at center after his career season on Zata's wing? Do you drop Todd Bertuzzi from the first line to the third line? My fear is that if Bert drops to line three - then he'll be extremely less effective and then people will be calling for his head despite the fact he could be playing with guys that he just doesn't mesh with.
On the contrary - slotting Dirty Bert on the third line could make things interesting for the opposition as well...
Cleary-Abdelkader-Miller (or Emmerton or Eaves or whoever)
...actually...as I look at that - that is one HELL of a lineup...danger all the way down to the fourth line.
We've got options and plenty of them. What's YOUR ideal lineup for our forward corps?
1. Andrew: Finishing 6th in scoring on a line with Datsyuk and a decent amount of PP time is not impressing at all if you ask me.
2. The question is wether Nyquist and Brunner are good enough to earn top six forward slots. If you ask me i´d say its not very likely, don´t get me wrong i´d love nothing more. If were fortunate and they both are able to grab these slots will result with Bert droppin down to the third line which means Sammy ends up in fourth line unless we play him as LW.
3. Some of you think that Flip is an option when it comes to trades which i think is crazy. Especially after last season were he truly showed what he´s capable of. I definatly consider him more important than Franzen.
Anyway if I were to combine logics with what i´d like to see we would start the season something like this:
Z - Datsyuk - Brunner
Nyquist - Flip - Franzen
Cleary/Miller - Helm - Sammy
Tootoo - Kader - Bert
Ok, doesnt matter how i make up the lines, i´ll never get satisfied ;D
I´d love to have Helm as a top 6 forward but we dont have enough centers that i´d like to play. I give up!
1. I still think that Franzen shouldn't be on this team. His attitude is corruptive. Still hope he changes my mind but for now. . .
2. I think our forward lineup needs dramatic change. Datsyuk is one of the best players in the league and should be putting up better numbers even with his focus on defense. On the whole it just seems like the entire team has more potential than they have results. We need a shake-up
(I think this line proposed by primis would be among the best in the league, I doubt it'll happen unfortunately)
(Craziness I know, but let's face it both helm and miller could really use some more ice time. They've proven they have chops, let's see if they can handle the real deal. Flip gets to stay on wing where he produced and can back up helm as he tries to use his speed to the lines advantage. If you don't think Miller could handle pulling the trigger for the second line you haven't been watching him, Nyquist could see some time here too along with eaves if healthy)
(Emmerton as the third line center is a bit of a worry but with the exception of Cleary who adds some experience ((if HEALTHY)) think of this line as a place for the kids to really have a chance to shine. We have so many prospects that need real NHL experience to take the next step in their careers, let's put them here. Switch people out, find the gems and get rid of the weak. Nyquist plays here most of the time maybe jumping up to a higher line as he gains some experience.)
(This line causes devastation and pisses off everyone. Nuff said)
A bit insane, I'm aware, but I would love to watch that team play.
I love the line of Cleary - Helm - Miller. They were terrific last year when put together and think keeping them together makes a lot of sense. I think putting Pav and Z on the same line is also a really good idea to make one line exceptionally lethal. I offer up the following possibility: Franzen-Datsyuk-Zetterberg Brunner-Filppula-Bertuzzi Nyquist-Abdelkader-Sammuelsson Cleary-Helm-Miller Others: Tootoo, Mursak, Emmerton, Eaves After writing this, its more clear to me that a trade needs to happen to unload some of this depth to shore up the blue line.
I like Bert as a 3rd liner with Helm + *insert one of 50(rough estimate) third liners here*
In my mind we MUST make some sort of trade to dump a few forwards. Franzen or Fil would be the ideal trade bait, and throw in Mursak. Mursak would be a real nice 3rd/4th liner for any other team....hell he could even be given a shot at the top-6 depending on where he goes.
Trade them for a solid D-man and we've got ourselves a pretty nice looking team.
Nyquist- Datsyuk - Sammy
Franzen/Fil - Z - Brunner
Bert - Helm - Cleary
Tootoo/Miller - Abby -Eaves/Miller
We still have plenty of depth so Babcock can shuffle the lines every period, and we aren't overpopulated anymore! (I just assume/pray Emmerton will be waived)
p.s. I hope I didn't forget anyone
Bertuzzi on the first line is inviting the Wings to be on the PK 30 seconds into every single game because that seems to be what he does. THAT is the single biggest problem with him getting that much ice-time: he takes too many dumb, moronic, idiotic penalties. He's too big of a liability in that regard.
I still don't see why you don't put Z and Datsyuk together on the 1st line, Fil and Franzen on the 2nd, and dare the opposition to try concentrating on one. If they try to take out Pavel and Z, Franzen gets more opportunities. If they give Franzen more respect, Pavel and Z get more. Now consider Nyquist on the 2nd line with Franzen and Fil, and Sameulsson on the 1st with Z and Pavel? Pretty lethal. And if you don't feel Fil is a 2nd line Center, I fail to see why DET has any need to keep him then. It's better than splitting Dats and Z up and having both their lines not doing anything...
I''m not penciling Brunner in anywhere though. It's highly unlikely he'll even make the Wings, let alone stick around in North America. I'd love to be proven wrong, but the track record with guys like him suggests otherwise. I'm not even considering him in my lines because I think he'll be in G.R.
Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Sameulsson
Nyquist - Filppula - Franzen
Abdelkader - Helm - Miller/Bertuzzi
Cleary - Emmerton - Eaves
Cleary is broken I think and not capable of a ton of ice time anymore. Same for Berttuzzi, and less TOI = less chances to get sent to the box. Sammy isn't a big body, but might be a nice agitator on that top line (runs his mouth an awful lot, remember) and certainly has the hands to keep up with the other two. Nyquist would be a nice threat to add with Fil and Franzen for a 2nd line. Helm and Abby with just about anyone is fun. With Bert, might even be MORE fun. Emmerton is a natural C and Eaves is a natural shooter, Cleary is a grinder... makes sense for a 4th line that can still score some.
That's assuming Eaves comes back of course (I relaly hope he does, gosh the Wings could use his skillset). If not heck, plug in Mursak instead. And yes, I've left out Tootoo because I completely fail to see where or how he'd fit in, or what the point is, and I suspect you might see that realized as soon as camp.
I feel like Bertuzzi and Datsyuk work really well together, from a puck possession standpoint. They've lacked a trigger on the other side to benefit from the space those two create. I think that Nyquist or Brunner (if he's good) would be the guys who are just supposed to get open and get shots on that line. I thought Semin would have been perfect for this role.
Franzen is a second tier option but he's too inconsistent and doesn't work hard enough without the puck. He also doesn't move the puck all that well.
I deff say bert on the 3rd line. I hated seeing him and mule turn the puck over so much and pav using all his energy for back checking, he needs young talent (goose) to play with so he can play to his full potential. And if mule has another lazy year then drop him a line and put val on the 1st with pav and goose
Don't forget Tootoo either.
I can see them starting the year like this:
@CalumB Correct. I think that's all but academic.
If we go into the season with these 12 forwards + Eaves (not even including Mursak and Emmerton), I don't think Nyquist will start the season with us. Babs has indicated that Brunner will be given every opportunity to start in the top 6 and from what I've read, Sammy appears to be the Hudler replacement which is why I had him on that line. And if Gus isn't playing a top 6 role, I can see them sending him down to GR.
Basically, I think Brunner has the leg up here but I could be wrong.
If Brunner doesn't make the team, I'd agree wtih you - Bert with Pav on the top line and maybe Gus can be a nice fit with Cleary and Helm. Or maybe Eaves slots in there. We're a lot deeper than I thought...
@KevinMichael Agreed.. but give it time. We'll know who's going to be the best fit come camp if we haven't found someone yet. (Yo, it's about time you change that avatar.... take another one why don't ya. ;P )
@Reddy Surprised that we signed him.....but in my opinion bert should be gone. he tries hard but the skill level is slipping fast. If Jordin was to be in my line-up it would be as a replacement or a sub for bert. If one of them plays well then they get to play the next game. else wise move eaves to 2nd line. bench sammy. Jordin on 4th line with justin and drew.
In response to Tal, Franzen is a goal scorer. Plain and simple.
when he WANTS to score he does. recently he has been aggravated with nagging injuries and issues with detroit faithful saying that we need to trade him. I LOVE THE MULE.